Posts by Joe Grundy

40

In Ireland, JW's may sue over blood transfusion

by Kenneson in

in an unprecedented case, an irish judge overruled an adult woman jehovah's witness objection to blood transfusions.

in the past, only children had been forced to have transfusions where deemed necessary.

when the story first broke out, there were several ambiguities and questions unanswered.

Joe Grundy

This could be very interesting.

In my humble (and layman's) opinion:

1. WTBTS/the dubs could not be a party to the litigation - it would have to be the woman concerned as sole plaintiff

2. The medical authorities would have an unassailable defence against a suit for assault because they were acting in accordance with a court order

3. Possible suit against the medical authorities for misrepresentation/negligence in collecting and presenting the evidence to the court when applying for the order? Difficult to prove, i would have thought.

4. If the legal position in Eire is the same as in UK, individual judges etc. cannot be sued for their judicial decisions

5. Possibly an action in a higher court (or Eurpean Court) for breach of the woman's human rights under ECHR? Possible, but on what basis could she ask for damages/compensation? And the breach has now finished if it existed at all so she couldn't sue for an order to desist (ceriatori?)

6. I don't know anything about the Legal Aid system in Eire, but suspect she may have difficulty in getting funding.

7. I can't see that WTBTS would fund her. The publicity surrounding this case could, I suspect, be enough to outweigh the JW's efforts in door-to-door work for years to come.

15

HELP PLEASE - Youngster At Risk

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

(i am not, never have been, a jw.

i am an apostate of the whore of babylon and have been awarded the title of honorary apostate here.).

i very recently posted about how i had come into contact with a poster on an entirely unrelated mb whose step-daughter (age about 12) was, i concluded, studying with jws along with her natural mum.

Joe Grundy

Thanks for these. Duly passed on.

Anything else gladly received.

15

HELP PLEASE - Youngster At Risk

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

(i am not, never have been, a jw.

i am an apostate of the whore of babylon and have been awarded the title of honorary apostate here.).

i very recently posted about how i had come into contact with a poster on an entirely unrelated mb whose step-daughter (age about 12) was, i concluded, studying with jws along with her natural mum.

Joe Grundy

(I am not, never have been, a JW. I am an apostate of the Whore of Babylon and have been awarded the title of honorary apostate here.)

I very recently posted about how I had come into contact with a poster on an entirely unrelated MB whose step-daughter (age about 12) was, I concluded, studying with JWs along with her natural Mum. I passed onto the step-mum a precis of information I had gahered from various sources, and later the step-mum contacted me and told me that the step-daughter had pulled out.

Out of the blue today, the step-mum has contacted me by e-mail and asked me to re-send the information I gave her previously. It appears, sadly, as if the step-daughter has re-entered the danger zone.

I have, of course, given her a link to this site (and have offered to post on her behalf if needed). I have checked through my bookmarked sites but quite a number of those are about the more detailed problems with the teachings, etc. (which is what I was looking for, but not really suitable for this purpose).

What I need is/are some links to sources suitable for a pre-teen girl to explain exactly what getting involved with the org will entail, personal experiences, etc.

The immediate advice I have given is that baptism is to be avoided at all costs.

I have the e-mail addresses of a couple of young lady posters here (e.g. Crumpet). I wondered whether putting them in touch with the step-mum (with their consent, of course) may be useful.

Any thoughts, comments, advice, suggestions, gratefully accepted and passed on.

23

I'm being hunted by an elder - would this work?

by serendipity in

jw
friends

this week elder z shows up at my house twice, unexpectedly.

the first time i didn't see him, but my daughter did and didn't answer the door.

the next time i decided not to answer the door since i didn't feel like talking to him.

Joe Grundy

I'd be happy to give you my Cyprus cellphone number and you can tell the elder to call me for any information he needs.

I could use all the Greek words I know during my conversation which wouldn't get either of us very far 'cos apart from the very basics, all the Greek words I know are names of restaurant dishes.

But at least he'd be able to file some sort of report to his ubergruppenfuerher.

Let me know if you think this would help.

39

Are All Apostates Old Farts?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

in the interest of fairness now.

.

slim.

Joe Grundy

I am an Apostate of the Whore of Babylon. (This is a title I have just discovered for myself for myself and which I am quite proud of. I may have a T shirt printed. Although, of course, to JWs I would be a 'seeker after the truth').

NO!

10

Placing Publications - The Reality

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

i'm not, never have been, a jw, etc.. a couple of months ago, on a mb entirely unconnected with religion a poster told of her concerns that her pre-teen step-daughter had started to study (with her mother) with jws.. the poster knew nothing of jws - her concern was because her step-daughter had asked her not to tell her husband (the girl's father) of this and keep it secret.

(apparently the mother had previously had connections with jws and the father was not happy with this).. i posted on that mb, mentioned some concerns, and later got into e-mail contact with the step-mother.

i put together a brief note about some history of the jws, some concerns i had (mainly gathered from reading jwd) and sent it to her, just to make her aware of what she may be dealing with.

Joe Grundy

Thanks, Juni!

This is what I sent in my e-mail reply:

Re the jaydubs - I was surprised to find when I started researching them that this leaving (or 'placing' as they calll it) their literature in public places (launderettes, hospital waiting rooms, etc.) is very common. The reason is apparently that JWs have to submit a return to the 'elders' every month of their missionary activity. ('Missionary' as in outreach work, not as in 'wifely due'). Too few hours means that you are regarded as 'inactive' and thus likely to die at Armageddon, or at least get grief from the 'elders'. So many JWs go round likely places and leave the magazines. They can count their hours for the visit, and if they find (or can assume) someone has actually read one they can count some more time for that too. I wonder if the repair place owner is a jaydub or one of his staff is, or whether someone just asked to leave the stuff there and he didn't object because like the vast majority of people he has no idea of what the JWs are/believe and cares even less. Certainly wouldn't be good for business if other customers realised that JWs consider all religions other than theirs the 'Whore of Babylon', etc. Might offend the local vicar when he brings his Morris Minor in for a paint job!

I had a later thought and sent this PS:

An interesting (well to me, anyway) philosophical/religious thought just occurred to me. If the owner of the repair place is a JW he must (if he's a real believer) believe that Armageddon is 'just round the corner' 'some time soon' 'any day now' etc. So why would he bother to do a lasting repair job? After all, all the rest of us are going to die at Armageddon soon. Wouldn't give a lot of confidence in his offer of a long-term guarantee on the repair job, would it? (Or am I just being mischievous?)

I really do think it's best if I don't go to any more KH gigs, don't you? Signed, the apostate of the Whore of Babylon!

10

Placing Publications - The Reality

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

i'm not, never have been, a jw, etc.. a couple of months ago, on a mb entirely unconnected with religion a poster told of her concerns that her pre-teen step-daughter had started to study (with her mother) with jws.. the poster knew nothing of jws - her concern was because her step-daughter had asked her not to tell her husband (the girl's father) of this and keep it secret.

(apparently the mother had previously had connections with jws and the father was not happy with this).. i posted on that mb, mentioned some concerns, and later got into e-mail contact with the step-mother.

i put together a brief note about some history of the jws, some concerns i had (mainly gathered from reading jwd) and sent it to her, just to make her aware of what she may be dealing with.

Joe Grundy

Cheers, kid-A!

I am wondering whether I should apply for inclusion as an honourary apostate!

(Me, I'm just a long-ago apostate from ordinary, boring, mainstream christendom. But wait! Does that make me an apostate from the Whore Of Babylon? Now, there's a title to cherish!)

125

FRESH OFF THE PRESS.... 9/1/06 WT "When a Loved One Leaves Jeh."

by schne_belly in

.

this just in for your reading displeasure......enjoy

.

Joe Grundy

You sound like an innocently informed outsider.

I am an innocently-informed outsider!!

10

Placing Publications - The Reality

by Joe Grundy in

jw
friends

i'm not, never have been, a jw, etc.. a couple of months ago, on a mb entirely unconnected with religion a poster told of her concerns that her pre-teen step-daughter had started to study (with her mother) with jws.. the poster knew nothing of jws - her concern was because her step-daughter had asked her not to tell her husband (the girl's father) of this and keep it secret.

(apparently the mother had previously had connections with jws and the father was not happy with this).. i posted on that mb, mentioned some concerns, and later got into e-mail contact with the step-mother.

i put together a brief note about some history of the jws, some concerns i had (mainly gathered from reading jwd) and sent it to her, just to make her aware of what she may be dealing with.

Joe Grundy

I'm not, never have been, a JW, etc.

A couple of months ago, on a MB entirely unconnected with religion a poster told of her concerns that her pre-teen step-daughter had started to study (with her mother) with JWs.

The poster knew nothing of JWs - her concern was because her step-daughter had asked her not to tell her husband (the girl's father) of this and keep it secret. (Apparently the mother had previously had connections with JWs and the father was not happy with this).

I posted on that MB, mentioned some concerns, and later got into e-mail contact with the step-mother. I put together a brief note about some history of the JWs, some concerns I had (mainly gathered from reading JWD) and sent it to her, just to make her aware of what she may be dealing with. I also gave her some links to sites, including JWD. I don't know if she followed them up or not. Later the step-mother got back to me and told me that her step-daughter had decided of her own volition to discontinue the study and have no more to do with the dubs.

Today I had an email from the step-mother on an unrelated matter. But she mentioned in it that she recently had to take her car to a body repair shop for a quote. In her e-mail she included this:

In the reception area was a big table absolutely covered in recent copies of the Watchtower as reading material! Needless to say I have not taken my car there for repair. Don't you think that is strange? I didn't ask but it seems to me that they support this group. I would have thought it was not good for business.

Just goes to show - a little knowledge about JWs goes a long way. This is also relevant to the question about the effect of information about the dubs and the internet, I suppose.

125

FRESH OFF THE PRESS.... 9/1/06 WT "When a Loved One Leaves Jeh."

by schne_belly in

.

this just in for your reading displeasure......enjoy

.

Joe Grundy

I have had no response whatsoever.

I can only surmise (based on info about WTBTS which I have picked up from JWD) that if they DID plan any response they would have referred it to the local English-speaking congregation. I attended it three times with my JW MS neighbour. The last was wearing my FBI polo-shirt, and I went outside for a smoke afterwards. I also explained to my neighbour my religious views (I am an informed atheist) and that it may be best for his JW prospects if he curtailed his association as I am, no doubt, worldly and Bad Association. (We still speak occasionally but no more invitations to dinner with him or his friends, etc.).

So, any response via the local cong would probably have been checked with him first. I no doubt failed that test. Funny, really, it wasn't so long ago that his JW wife (she's the keener one, I think) told me that 'cos I was the 'innocent' one in my divorce in their eyes, there really wouldn't be any problems in my becoming a JW and living a 'full' life in the religion. Perhaps they have some increasingly-desperate single sisters available?